2038 Draft Talk

[Aston]

That's awfully definitive.

What would it take for someone to have say, 70 Avoid INT, in your eyes?

[irabowman]

Wow I now know why I was torn over Mandel... Apparently some think he was good pick others don't, and then there are those let's wait and see.

Now on another note I really did not pay attention to intelligence and did not know it was a factor to consider. I am learning something new all time. However when Rob told Shark that it was very low 13, I just figured that was bad and I would of wanted it to be high. Then Shark makes it sound like you want a small #. I figured the higher it is the better a person is learning plays and formations. So is this not the case?

[Sharkn20]

Well hopefully is an irony and you are not being rude with me... We have more words than English have, anyway, you can put Randy Boone in a mediocre offensive team with a mediocre gameplanner and he wouldn't win 11 championships... For me is a good pick and the guy with a good (not great) supporting system would be elite. If you put him all the pressure in his shoulders he won't work.

[IrishGuy65]

That's awfully definitive.

What would it take for someone to have say, 70 Avoid INT, in your eyes?

I would say Mandel would need, at a minimum, 30 or lower Read Defense bar to go with the 13 IQ and 39 Sole score. And, if he had those things and a 70ish AI, would that make him 'a monster avoid interceptions'? My answer would be no. A 70 QB is very good, but not a monster QB. A 70 rated anything is good, but not unparalleled or out of this world or any other OVER THE TOP description. Further, the sense rush of the QB in question is a huge question mark, IMO. I've explained why.

As with most of these types of discussions, I seem to be the only one actually talking and making cogent points. Your way of discussion is a one way street. If you have something to say on the subject, Aston, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, I'm pretty much done here. What I said was very clear and coherent, and I haven't heard, yet, anything opposing it.

The same with Shark. "39 Solecisimic Test and 13 Intelligence nothing more to say. With a good OL and catch and run WRs he could be a monster. But time will tell." is no discussion at all. In fact, it doesn't add anything at all to the discussion at hand.

In all, many people often talk about learning, growing, discussing the various aspects of the game... but how often does anyone ACTUALLY hold and be a part of this type of discussion. My annoyance with this whole discussion is simple... Look at two posts... Shark's response to my post, and Aston's response. There is no real attempt to communicate and discuss anything. I put my viewpoint across as clearly and without prejudice as I could. But these are the types of responses I get in return? You wonder why I am mostly not present in these threads and this league? Because any time I try to start a discussion, this is basically the way it goes.

In the future, if I deign to impart my thoughts, maybe it would be better to contribute to the discussion, and give all here an opportunity to learn. Maybe more people would be involved if the opportunity presented itself to learn and to be a part of a reasonable conversation. In this particular league, I have yet to see a discussion about how the game works. ADD to the league, be a part of the discussion. This: "39 Solecisimic Test and 13 Intelligence nothing more to say. With a good OL and catch and run WRs he could be a monster. But time will tell." And this: "That's awfully definitive.

What would it take for someone to have say, 70 Avoid INT, in your eyes?" really do not add to the discussion. With responses like that, I (and most people here), may as well go talk to a wall. Grow the league, or watch it continue to fall apart. How many openings do we have, with the influx of new players due to Steam? Why do you think it is, that this league is falling apart while so many others are currently thriving?

Make this league better. Discuss the game. Allow someone new to create a new thread... it's OK garion if a new player creates a thread about something that you think should be in a very long and generic thread. Let the league, and the forums, be more dynamic. And maybe the league will grow.

[Guest]

Falling apart? Lol

Nvm, Aston can take care of himself and I have little interest in being trolled.

[Aston]

Woah. Here's why I asked that (and, I apologize if I offended you with it. I meant no disrespect. But, I can't write a book about the topic every single time I post ): I think you're being way, way too specific about your requirements.

The AI bar is hidden, but it should be no different than any other bar.

What kind of agility score would it take to have 70 GD? What kind of bench score would it take to have 70 bump in a LB -- and we know that's split three ways. Or for a DB -- split two ways. My answer to these questions would be: "a range." And a pretty wide range, because I don't think combines are definitive. A 7.06 ('decent good' for agility) is more likely to get you that 70 GD on a 7.0 graded stud WR who shows a high bar there already, than it is for some 4.4 graded guy in the 7th round, to use a really simplistic example.

You're saying this guy has to have 39 sole, 13 IQ, and 30 or lower RD in order to have 70 AI. Can't a highly graded QB with high scores, and at least good indicators, have high bars in both? Remember, this guy is a 7.2 graded QB. None of his combines are bad. Two of his combines are extremely good, and I'd argue the Sole/intel combo is pretty up there as well.

I also think you're putting more emphasis on the Read Defense bar than I am. I thought that was a minor contribution, but acknowledge it's not well quantified exactly how much influence it plays. Stelmack lists it as only a 10% weight from the sole score. I've always gone with the idea that Sole/intel works for QBs more or less as it does for other positions, but yes, Read Defense can push it a little bit in a different direction.

Lastly, I'd argue a 70 bar is pretty great. A 70/70 QB is also great. Maybe not a monster, but we're getting into semantics here. Anyone that has a 70 skill in anything is approaching the upper echelon for that skill in the game. He might not make Greta's Top 10, I don't know if I could guarantee that, but there are very few cases where I can look at a few combine scores -- or combine/intelligence pairings -- and really guarantee anything.

I wouldn't guarantee a 70 bar here, either. But when you look at this QB, and you wonder what his intelligence is, and you get back a 13 -- that is about the best case scenario you could have hoped for. You're right, he's not necessarily going to be the best ever. But the only reason we look at intel in a QB is we hope to get a good sign, or at least not a bad one. And this is a good sign. Let's not get our wires crossed too much over that.

I'm open to this discussion and I think we also just have some different understandings of how stuff works. I don't believe there's a single consensus, but I also feel maybe we're just tripping over semantics. Hope this makes sense.

* I do agree about the threads, though. We only need to consolidate when it's necessary. A few new threads here or there is not a problem at all.

[irabowman]

Well it is going to be interesting too see what happens. I know in real NFL Manning, Favre & Marino had all kids of records and what some may call a beast or monster. Mannng has 1 SB Victory, Favre 1 SB Victory & Marino 0. Now to me the greatest QB of all time was Joe "Cool" Montana No one thought he be any good, Then add Terry Bradshaw, & Troy Aikman you have 11 Superbowl victorys. Granted they all had some of the greatest coaches and greatest supporting cast around them. Anyway even as great as Elway was & Brady is. I would choose Montana over all of them. Get a O/L to keep him healthy, then get a Jerry Rice to throw too, and a Killer D to stop QB's like Elway & Marino. You have a Dynasty.

O/L have my LT is 87 RT 80. Hoping to improve G & C this year, though I don't think I will find a stud in these spots.

Def. I might of went wrong here but I wanted to get my DL boosted up first before my secondary. I was thinking I can have a great secondary, but if I can't stop run or get pressure on QB I will get ball ran down my throat, and give opposing QB all day to find open man. So I have more work to do. Just thriving to win a championship in near future.

[Guest]

Honestly shocked that one of those d-linemen fell out of the top 10.

[Guest]

Wow.

Like ... wow.

Chuck, you're gonna have to explain why you took that OLB at 1.9.

I think you could've easily waited until 2.1 to get him, if not later.

[sawblade300]

Wow.

Like ... wow.

Chuck, you're gonna have to explain why you took that OLB at 1.9.

I think you could've easily waited until 2.1 to get him, if not later.

I had him in the top on my list. My scouts see him as VU and his bars looks great. He's going to be a great 3-4 WLB. 70-75 PRT. 75-80 PRS. Great coverage bars and near perfect play diag and PH.

He wouldn't have made it to 2.1. Depending on what was left, I may have taken him at 1.22

[Guest]

Man, my defensive Scouting is either terrible or great. I saw the END bar on one of the safeties completely different than Rob. Like, completely different.

Oates I have with a PRT of 23-63. Yeah, 40 point difference, which should tell you something.

I see great static bars which may indicate I'm seeing him lower than he is, but with his END as low as it is he doesn't seem like a top 10 pick to me. I'd be fascinated to know if I'm seeing his END wrong like the other guy.

Ymmv

[Delandis]

I didn't expect all 3 of those safeties to go top 10!

Looks like I'm going to trade out of the 1st.

[sawblade300]

Man, my defensive Scouting is either terrible or great. I saw the END bar on one of the safeties completely different than Rob. Like, completely different.

Oates I have with a PRT of 23-63. Yeah, 40 point difference, which should tell you something.

I see great static bars which may indicate I'm seeing him lower than he is, but with his END as low as it is he doesn't seem like a top 10 pick to me. I'd be fascinated to know if I'm seeing his END wrong like the other guy.

Ymmv

This is what I see from him. My DC scouting bar is around 90-93. HC is about 52. So I trust what these guys see.

[Guest]

Yeah, I wouldn't have taken his top 10 even then. I don't trust interviews enough. Sometimes they are wrong.

That said, if you both saw him as U or VU then it's probably true.

Personally, without knowing the strength combine I'd be hesitant to trust the guy was gonna meet or exceed his bars. Down at the end of the 1st, sure, by saw's scout. My scouting sees him worse and I'd never have looked at him in the 1st, probably.

[sawblade300]

I guess it will be interesting to keep an eye on him and see where he goes.